it tends to fluctuate....during the boom periods your going to pay a higher premium to spot than during phases its falling and people scared to buy......
kruggerands typically have the smallest premium...and gold is gold IMO...plus they more durable than eagles and maples....you already know my feelings about buying gold at this moment....GL
kruggerands typically have the smallest premium...and gold is gold IMO...plus they more durable than eagles and maples....you already know my feelings about buying gold at this moment....GL
also the higher it goes the less you are spending percentage wise on the premium costs
back when gold was like 400 premiums were something like 20 bucks from memory....5% more than spot....while 50 bucks at 1400 is 3.5%.....
the premium really not the issue...the key is buying at the right times.....
back when gold was like 400 premiums were something like 20 bucks from memory....5% more than spot....while 50 bucks at 1400 is 3.5%.....
the premium really not the issue...the key is buying at the right times.....
http://www.tulving.com/goldbull.html
Tulving 30 on krugs...but they a bulk dealer gotta buy at least 20 oz they typically always the cheapest....so that's probably the lowest your gonna find level....
Tulving 30 on krugs...but they a bulk dealer gotta buy at least 20 oz they typically always the cheapest....so that's probably the lowest your gonna find level....
Yes, it depends on how many you buy, what coin you buy (i can't spell but a Kugran is less than an American Eagle for some reason).
I wouldn't worry about the surcharge too much. It will go up. I've been buying physical gold and silver for 10 years and I've bought at $270, $400, $600, $1000 and even bought at $1360 just a few weeks ago. I got it at spot because a buddy sold them.
Gold to $3K. I'm in escrow on a farm in Fallbrook CA because I think food is going to go way up as well. We'll see
I wouldn't worry about the surcharge too much. It will go up. I've been buying physical gold and silver for 10 years and I've bought at $270, $400, $600, $1000 and even bought at $1360 just a few weeks ago. I got it at spot because a buddy sold them.
Gold to $3K. I'm in escrow on a farm in Fallbrook CA because I think food is going to go way up as well. We'll see
Till 2012 those sneaky bastards jammed this shit into the health care law...the government loves you they really really do
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Gold Coin Sellers Angered by New Tax Law
By RICH BLAKE7/21/2010, 5:29 PM EDT
Those already outraged by the president's health care legislation now have a new bone of contention -- a scarcely noticed tack-on provision to the law that puts gold coin buyers and sellers under closer government scrutiny.
The issue is rising to the fore just as gold coin dealers are attracting attention over sales tactics.
Section 9006 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will amend the Internal Revenue Code to expand the scope of Form 1099. Currently, 1099 forms are used to track and report the miscellaneous income associated with services rendered by independent contractors or self-employed individuals.
Coin Dealers Flipping
Starting Jan. 1, 2012, Form 1099s will become a means of reporting to the Internal Revenue Service the purchases of all goods and services by small businesses and self-employed people that exceed $600 during a calendar year. Precious metals such as coins and bullion fall into this category and coin dealers have been among those most rankled by the change.
This provision, intended to mine what the IRS deems a vast reservoir of uncollected income tax, was included in the health care legislation ostensibly as a way to pay for it. The tax code tweak is expected to raise $17 billion over the next 10 years, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.
Taking an early and vociferous role in opposing the measure is the precious metal and coin industry, according to Diane Piret, industry affairs director for the Industry Council for Tangible Assets. The ICTA, based in Severna Park, Md., is a trade association representing an estimated 5,000 coin and bullion dealers in the United States.
"Coin dealers not only buy for their inventory from other dealers, but also with great frequency from the public," Piret said. "Most other types of businesses will have a limited number of suppliers from which they buy their goods and products for resale."
So every time a member of the public sells more than $600 worth of gold to a dealer, Piret said, the transaction will have to be reported to the government by the buyer.
Pat Heller, who owns Liberty Coin Service in Lansing, Mich., deals with around 1,000 customers every week. Many are individuals looking to protect wealth in an uncertain economy, he said, while others are dealers like him.
With spot market prices for gold at nearly $1,200 an ounce, Heller estimates that he'll be filling out between 10,000 and 20,000 tax forms per year after the new law takes effect.
"I'll have to hire two full-time people just to track all this stuff, which cuts into my profitability," he said.
An issue that combines gold coins, the Obama health care law and the IRS is bound to stir passions. Indeed, trading in gold coins and bars has surged since the financial crisis unfolded and Obama took office, metal dealers said.
The buying of actual gold, as opposed to futures or options tied to the price of gold, has been a particularly popular trend among Tea Party supporters and others who are fearful of Obama's economic policies, gold industry members such as Heller and Piret said.
Conservative/libertarian commentators, such as Fox News Channel's Glenn Beck, routinely tout precious metal on the air as being a safe, shrewd investment in an environment in which the financial system -- and paper money backed by the rest of the world's faith in the U.S. government's credit -- is viewed as increasingly fragile.
The recently revealed investigation by California authorities into consumer complaints against Goldline International, which has used Beck as a pitchman, and Superior Gold Group (which has not) has put a spotlight on what one liberal leaning politician, Rep. Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y., calls the "unholy alliance" between gold coin sellers, such as Goldline, and conservative talk personalities, such as Beck.
Beck, who through his spokesman, Matt Hiltzik, declined to comment for this story, and Goldline marketers portray gold coins as a better alternative to owning bullion in the event that the U.S. government ever decides, as it did under FDR in 1933, to make it illegal for private citizens to own physical gold. At that time, the U.S. dollar was still pegged to the price of gold; the gold standard was abandoned during the Nixon administration.
Rep. Daniel Lungren, R-Calif., has introduced legislation to repeal the section of the health care bill that would trigger the new tax reporting requirement because he says it's a burden on small businesses.
"Large corporations have whole divisions to handle such transaction paperwork but for a small business, which doesn't have the manpower, this is yet another brick on their back," Lungren said in a statement e-mailed to ABCNews.com. "Everyone agrees that small businesses are job creators and the engine which drives the American economy. I am dumfounded that this Administration is doing all it can to make it more difficult for businesses to succeed rather than doing all it can to help them grow."
The ICTA's Piret says identity theft is another concern because criminals may set up shops specifically to extract personal information that would accompany the filing out of a 1099.
The office of the National Taxpayer Advocate, a citizen's ombudsman within the IRS, issued a report June 30 that said the new rule "may present significant administrative challenges to taxpayers and the IRS."
Totally forgot about that til you mentioned ease of transaction...this will likely keep premiums high and physical supplies hard to find for remainder of the year....as it's the last chance to get in gold under the radar.....
And honestly this could drive physical silver demand further come 2012 and beyond if you think about it
Do I buy a gold coin and have to give my info (most people buying gold arent fans of government) or do i buy silver in sub 600 (the trigger point) batches and stay off the radar
And honestly this could drive physical silver demand further come 2012 and beyond if you think about it
Do I buy a gold coin and have to give my info (most people buying gold arent fans of government) or do i buy silver in sub 600 (the trigger point) batches and stay off the radar
I'll believe it when I see it....I doubt they confiscate like in the 30s....but they gonna at least want to track it....plus the main thing for the government whores (beyond the kooky tracking stuff) is making sure they get their cut of taxes in the booming gold/silver trade market.....also it will create a good "kook" list as like I said most people buying gold have at least a minor anti-government twinge in um.....
IMO just like with most of what Obama does, he will give a waiver to gold sellers. They gonna cry how they gonna go out of business because people wont buy from them anymore. And actually they might be right. There is so much gold out there already that it would be easy for a black market to emerge
well it does sound like they are going to take it out after all
---------------------------------------------
House votes to end unpopular new business tax rule
House votes to repeal unpopular business tax filing requirement in new health care law
Stephen Ohlemacher, Associated Press, On Thursday March 3, 2011, 2:50 pm EST
WASHINGTON (AP) -- An unpopular tax filing requirement for businesses tucked into the new health care law would be repealed under a bill overwhelmingly passed by the House Thursday.
The provision would require millions of businesses to file tax forms for every vendor that sells them more than $600 in goods each year, starting in 2012. The requirement is projected to raise nearly $25 billion over the next decade by ensuring that vendors pay their taxes. But lawmakers in both parties say it could create a paperwork nightmare for businesses and the Internal Revenue Service.
The filing requirement is so unpopular in Congress that it is unlikely to ever take effect. The House voted 314 to 112 Thursday to repeal the filing requirement, with 76 Democrats joining all Republicans in voting to pass the bill. The Senate passed a similar measure last month, and attached it to an unrelated bill to help modernize the nation's air traffic control system.
However, many Democrats and Republicans -- and the House and Senate -- disagree on how to make up the potential revenue, so the debate could drag on for months.
"Frankly, it is an attempt to repeal a provision of the health care bill that never should have been there in the first place," said Rep. Dan Lungren, R-Calif., who sponsored the House repeal bill. "Let's not make it a political football now."
President Barack Obama's budget office released a statement saying the administration supports repealing the filing requirement -- even though it was included in the health care law he championed -- because it would "place an unnecessary bookkeeping burden on small businesses." The administration, however, opposes both the Senate and House plans to make up the potential revenue.
Businesses already must file Form 1099s with the IRS when they purchase more than $600 in services from a vendor in a year. The new provision would extend the requirement to the purchase of goods, starting in 2012.
The requirement would hit about 38 million businesses, charities and tax-exempt organizations, many of them small businesses already swamped by government paperwork, according to a report by the National Taxpayer Advocate, an independent watchdog within the IRS.
"If we wonder why we have a high unemployment rate, it's because of provisions like this," said Rep. Charles Boustany, R-La. "The president thinks it's bad, Democrats think it's bad, Republicans think it's bad, even the Senate thinks it's bad. It's taken long enough to move on this. Let's do it. Let's get it done."
The Senate bill would make up the lost revenue through unspecified spending cuts. The House bill would make up the lost revenue by changing another part of the health care law, requiring more families to repay tax credits designed to help them pay insurance premiums, if their incomes increase beyond certain levels.
Starting in 2014, the new health care law will provide tax credits to low- and middle-income families to help pay health insurance premiums, if they don't get insurance through their employers.
The credits will be paid directly to insurance companies throughout the year. The amount will be based on family size, premium costs and income, as reported on previously filed tax returns. Under the law, if a family's income increases, and they no longer qualify for the tax credits -- or qualify for a smaller amount -- they would have to repay a portion of those tax credits when they file their federal tax returns. The House bill would increase the amount people would have to repay, generating a projected $25 billion over the next decade.
House Democrats said the provision amounts to a tax increase on middle-income families.
"Despite Republican claims, it is a tax increase," said Rep. Joseph Crowley, D-N.Y. "Democrats are ready to repeal (the filing) requirements. But we will not do it on the backs of hard-working middle class Americans."
Republicans said they merely want people to repay subsidies they are no longer entitled to receive.
"The fact is, what this comes down to is, returning an improper government subsidy, and that is not a tax increase," said Rep. David Dreier, R-Calif., chairman of the House Rules Committee.
---------------------------------------------
House votes to end unpopular new business tax rule
House votes to repeal unpopular business tax filing requirement in new health care law
Stephen Ohlemacher, Associated Press, On Thursday March 3, 2011, 2:50 pm EST
WASHINGTON (AP) -- An unpopular tax filing requirement for businesses tucked into the new health care law would be repealed under a bill overwhelmingly passed by the House Thursday.
The provision would require millions of businesses to file tax forms for every vendor that sells them more than $600 in goods each year, starting in 2012. The requirement is projected to raise nearly $25 billion over the next decade by ensuring that vendors pay their taxes. But lawmakers in both parties say it could create a paperwork nightmare for businesses and the Internal Revenue Service.
The filing requirement is so unpopular in Congress that it is unlikely to ever take effect. The House voted 314 to 112 Thursday to repeal the filing requirement, with 76 Democrats joining all Republicans in voting to pass the bill. The Senate passed a similar measure last month, and attached it to an unrelated bill to help modernize the nation's air traffic control system.
However, many Democrats and Republicans -- and the House and Senate -- disagree on how to make up the potential revenue, so the debate could drag on for months.
"Frankly, it is an attempt to repeal a provision of the health care bill that never should have been there in the first place," said Rep. Dan Lungren, R-Calif., who sponsored the House repeal bill. "Let's not make it a political football now."
President Barack Obama's budget office released a statement saying the administration supports repealing the filing requirement -- even though it was included in the health care law he championed -- because it would "place an unnecessary bookkeeping burden on small businesses." The administration, however, opposes both the Senate and House plans to make up the potential revenue.
Businesses already must file Form 1099s with the IRS when they purchase more than $600 in services from a vendor in a year. The new provision would extend the requirement to the purchase of goods, starting in 2012.
The requirement would hit about 38 million businesses, charities and tax-exempt organizations, many of them small businesses already swamped by government paperwork, according to a report by the National Taxpayer Advocate, an independent watchdog within the IRS.
"If we wonder why we have a high unemployment rate, it's because of provisions like this," said Rep. Charles Boustany, R-La. "The president thinks it's bad, Democrats think it's bad, Republicans think it's bad, even the Senate thinks it's bad. It's taken long enough to move on this. Let's do it. Let's get it done."
The Senate bill would make up the lost revenue through unspecified spending cuts. The House bill would make up the lost revenue by changing another part of the health care law, requiring more families to repay tax credits designed to help them pay insurance premiums, if their incomes increase beyond certain levels.
Starting in 2014, the new health care law will provide tax credits to low- and middle-income families to help pay health insurance premiums, if they don't get insurance through their employers.
The credits will be paid directly to insurance companies throughout the year. The amount will be based on family size, premium costs and income, as reported on previously filed tax returns. Under the law, if a family's income increases, and they no longer qualify for the tax credits -- or qualify for a smaller amount -- they would have to repay a portion of those tax credits when they file their federal tax returns. The House bill would increase the amount people would have to repay, generating a projected $25 billion over the next decade.
House Democrats said the provision amounts to a tax increase on middle-income families.
"Despite Republican claims, it is a tax increase," said Rep. Joseph Crowley, D-N.Y. "Democrats are ready to repeal (the filing) requirements. But we will not do it on the backs of hard-working middle class Americans."
Republicans said they merely want people to repay subsidies they are no longer entitled to receive.
"The fact is, what this comes down to is, returning an improper government subsidy, and that is not a tax increase," said Rep. David Dreier, R-Calif., chairman of the House Rules Committee.
Get your physical gold while you still can.
The guy was out of like half the stuff he usually carries. He had the big stuff but not all of the 1 oz stuff. He charges as much for a 1/2 oz than for a 1 oz coin and he charges the most for 1/4 oz coins. Shocking really. He charges 75 bucks for 1 oz Eagle but 100 bucks!!!! for a 1/4 ounce one!!
Last time when I was there 3 months I ago, I was the only one there, today I saw 5 other customers
The guy was out of like half the stuff he usually carries. He had the big stuff but not all of the 1 oz stuff. He charges as much for a 1/2 oz than for a 1 oz coin and he charges the most for 1/4 oz coins. Shocking really. He charges 75 bucks for 1 oz Eagle but 100 bucks!!!! for a 1/4 ounce one!!
Last time when I was there 3 months I ago, I was the only one there, today I saw 5 other customers
